From some dood in response to loki's response:
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Here is a response to Eric "Loki" Hines comments made to #phrack:

[RaFa]: ".due to the accidental defacement he had made and apologized for
publicly"
This was hardly an "accident" he targeted www.terrorism.uk.com and
www.terrorismteam.uk.com obviously because
Of the word "terrorism" in the domain names, then replaced their Web page
with a rant about terrorism.
Once more you're publicly defending a "script kiddie" attacker who defaced a
victim of terrorism, what does this tell us about your morals and ethics?


"Do all security researchers have to be programmers? I believe I was the one
who authored an advisory on circumventing VPNet appliances without having to
know a single line of code."

You also forgot to mention that your father was a former employee of "VPNet"
and that you lost your job when you released this advisory.
Why would you lose your job for pointing out a security problem with these
devices? Why did you also state at the "Black Hat" convention, that after
you had finished your speech attorneys would probably be calling you?

I wonder if VPNet thought that you had used your father's access to their
own internal documentation to find the vulnerability and then create this
advisory, something they could possibly have sued you for.



"Think about it this way, programmers are what makes advisories and
vulnerabilities possible."

I believe you have proven my own point; the fact is people such as yourself
claim to be security experts but you lack the intrinsic knowledge to find
vulnerabilities in software, to quote John Viega  "Bad software is to blame"
for all of our current computer security problems.


"It is quite funny that you would say something like this when I recently
completed my Secret Clearance application process."
Taken from www.fatelabs.com webpage:

"through a research staff equipped with Secret to Top Secret/SCI Clearance,
Fate Research Labs provides technical expertise in all gamuts of security
able to work in all classified information environments. "

Completing your Secret Clearance application does not automatically grant
you the clearance or authorize Fate Labs a facility security clearance, 
which
is a whole different process.

Security clearances whether Secret or TS/SCI (Top Secret/Sensitive
Compartmentalized Information) are not granted to an entity but rather to an
Individual.  Individuals have to apply for and accept a position that
require a clearance before you can apply for a clearance.  If in fact, you
or members of Fate Labs possess Secret to TS/SCI clearances those clearances
could not possibly be active as in order for a individual to acquire and
maintain a security clearance you must be actively employed with an
organization that requires the individual to possess a security clearance
furthermore transferring security clearances from one employer to another
terminates the security clearance.

The question is clear, does Fate Labs have the ability to work in classified
Environments as you claim?
It seems you are representing to both the public sector and to the
Department of Defense (DoD) that Fate Labs maintains a current TS/SCI
Clearance for usage in sensitive network environments. If the entity Fate
Labs does not, this is fraud and is punishable.

"Be careful with whom you burn bridges, one day all of you will have to all
grow up and get real jobs."

Most of us will one day based on our merits, not on the merits of others,
Nor because we have a group of people doing our research and development for
us.

Individuals who have been exposed and are aware of the conduct of "Loki" and
Fate Labs and have elected to terminate their relationship with both 
entities
can rest assure that one day they will get "real" jobs based on their merits
and hard work, not on the merits and hard work of others, nor idiom the
ideas of other individuals performing our research and development in order
for us to a claim fame and glory off the hard work of others.  I don't
believe that burning bridges with Loki and Fate Labs will jeopardize our
Future employment it can only help.